Indexable insert face mills and shoulder mills

[EdK]

(07-02-2015, 10:33 AM)Sunset Machine Wrote: Why are they called "indexable"?

Per Wikipedia (not saying they are the experts though):

"Inserts are removable cutting tips, which means they are not brazed or welded to the tool body. They are usually indexable, meaning that they can be rotated or flipped without disturbing the overall geometry of the tool (effective diameter, tool length offset, etc.). This saves time in manufacturing by allowing fresh cutting edges to be presented periodically without the need for tool grinding, setup changes, or entering of new values into a CNC program."

Ed

[Sunset Machine]

It's sure a stretch of the language. I was wondering why that word was used, it doesn't make any sense. We don't index face mills, dammit.

I'm looking for a HSS side mill. Staggered, 3/4" x 6" for a 1" arbor. Travers has them for $250. Any other leads?

[EdK]

(07-02-2015, 11:34 AM)Sunset Machine Wrote: It's sure a stretch of the language. I was wondering why that word was used, it doesn't make any sense. We don't index face mills, dammit.

I'm looking for a HSS side mill. Staggered, 3/4" x 6" for a 1" arbor. Travers has them for $250. Any other leads?

This one's a little cheaper.

https://www.maritool.com/Cutting-Tools-K..._info.html

Ed

[PixMan]

(07-02-2015, 09:18 AM)EdK Wrote: Ken,

Did you sell the face mill or is it still available? With my larger mill coming soon, I'd like to get a face mill to go along with the shoulder mill I got from you.

Ed

Ed,

I still have the 2-1/2" 6-insert Walter F2280.UB.064.Z06.03 face mill, uses a 3/4" arbor. I bought a Taiwanese made "GS Tooling" 3/4" R8 arbor for it, and will soon have a pack of ten Walter ODMT0504ZZN-D57 grade WSP45S inserts for it. I am getting the inserts in exchange for helping a friend get his new-to-him Tsugami CNC screw machine with Iemca magazine bar loader purchased, installed, set up and programmed.

I chose that holder because I know that brand is of exceptional quality, far better than the ones from Shars, Tools4Cheap or CDCO. I had bought one for the 2-1/2" 4-insert F4041 shoulder mill I got, and checking insert runout it was less than 0.0015" across them all. That's really good. I had bought a Chinese one off Shars a few years ago and it's runout is just over 0.004". Not good.

The octagonal inserts have 8 cutting edges, the grade is good for virtually all materials. The cutter has a 43º lead angle, 10º axial shear angle and approximately 10º radial hook angle. The inserts have a 10º positive top rake angle. All this means is that it's a very high positive, free cutting tool that you can use for all kinds of surfacing while using little spindle power. Maximum depth per pass is 3mm (0.1181".) I have cutters which use the larger 4mm d.o.c. inserts, but with only 2HP spindle I never exceed 0.075" depth. You'll be fine, and your inserts are 23.5% cheaper than mine.

Give me a few more days and it'll be ready for you. The cutter cost me an even $100. The holder was $65.21. That's what I'll sell for, inserts (worth $163.00) are my gift, as is the shipping. I priced a no-name cutter from those 3 sellers, they come in at between $120 and $180 for the cutter without holder or inserts and only 4 edges per insert. Much higher cost for much lower quality.

I'll post a photo with inserts in the tool as soon as I get them if you're interested.

[EdK]

Ken,

I'm definitely interested and that's a very generous offer from you and I appreciate it immensely.

My new mill has a 3HP motor so I think the cutter is a good fit. I look forward to being able to hog off metal when necessary. With my current mill, it would take me all day to hog off enough metal to get me close to my dimensions. I'll be glad when those days are over.

Ed

[PixMan]

Ed,

It is indeed going to be PERFECT for your new machine. What we'll do is put together a little chart of RPM's to be at for various materials, you can just feed at whatever sounds good.

Mild steel <C0.25% 850
Alloy steels, annealed C 0.25 - 0.55% 700
Alloy steels, tempered C0.25 -0.55% 670
303 Stainless 400
316/321/347 stainless 340
416, 410, 4240, 430, 440 stainless, annealed 430
17-4PH, 15-5PH, 13-8PH, tempered 340
Aluminum, plastics, WFO!

Those are the cutting speeds (given as straight RPM for a 2-1/2" cutter) from the book at 75% the recommended rate, for tool life without rubbing them to death or burning them up. All are given for full cutter width of cut, can run those 25% faster at 1/2 cutter width or less. Feed rate per tooth shouldn't drop below .002" per tooth or you will wear them out from rubbing. Take RPM times feed per tooth, times 6 inserts to see feed in inches per minute.

Having a lead angle face mill, you will find yourself using it far more than the 2" shoulder mill. I see about 8-10x more use with mine than the F4041 2-1/2" shoulder mill I have, but still very happy to have that when it's really needed. When starting out it's usually a case of if you can only have one style it's best to go with the cutter that can do both, though the shoulder mill use more power for a given cut than the chip-thinning effect you get with a lead angle face mill.

I'll let you know when I have the inserts.

[PixMan]

Ed,

The inserts are in and I'm riding out on my bike tomorrow morning to pick them up. Photos will be taken after I put 6 of the ten into the cutter, then it ships out. I don't know if I can actually get it out until Monday, as I have an afternoon dentist appointment and a 5:30 PM pickup of my son and his girlfriend at Boston's Logan Airport.

You will only pay for the tooling when:

1. You get your mill and try it out.
2. You try it out and you love it.

If either of those two conditions aren't met, I will not accept payment.

[Vinny]

You got a sidecar on that bike? If not, how you gonna pick up two people with luggage? Certainly not one of those 4 wheel devices.

[EdK]

(07-02-2015, 06:57 PM)PixMan Wrote: Ed,

The inserts are in and I'm riding out on my bike tomorrow morning to pick them up. Photos will be taken after I put 6 of the ten into the cutter, then it ships out. I don't know if I can actually get it out until Monday, as I have an afternoon dentist appointment and a 5:30 PM pickup of my son and his girlfriend at Boston's Logan Airport.

You will only pay for the tooling when:

1. You get your mill and try it out.
2. You try it out and you love it.

If either of those two conditions aren't met, I will not accept payment.

Ken,

You sure know how to almost bring a grown man to tears.  
Your generosity is overwhelming.      

No rush in getting it sent out since my mill is still 6 weeks out, if it's on time. And then it'll take some time to get it disassembled and moved down into the basement and reassembled. I really don't expect you to wait that long for payment so I don't mind paying for it now. I can't imagine why I wouldn't like it. You've said it's perfect for the size mill I'm getting so that's good enough for me.

Ed

[Mayhem]

(07-02-2015, 07:10 PM)EdK Wrote: ...then it'll take some time to get it disassembled and moved down into the basement and reassembled...

If I had one of those face mills sitting around waiting for the mill to arrive, I'd be firing it up in the driveway and trying it out. In fact, I'd probably try to do it whilst still on the truck but I cannot see the driver playing along with that...