Elliott 10m Shaper

[b4dyc]

Hey Hey! I have a new to me shaper
Problem is I cant get it going yet It is has a 3 phase motor on it and I am not sure how to get it running from my 240 V (uk) supply
I have posted a piccy of the shaper and of the motor thats on it

This is a picture of it as I was wondering how to get it out of my van on my own and stood upright on the floor!

And there was me thinking Hoover was a vacuum cleaner


Now I know you can do what I want with some sort of converter, but what sort and how big do i need to look out for

I hope a bright spark out there can help me

thanks

[doubleboost]

Hi
Andy
If the motor is duel voltage
220 440 you will be able to run it of a VFD inverter 220 volt
Otherwise it will need a phase converter 440 volt
If it was me i would change the motor for a single phase unit
John

[stevec]

Although general opinion says 3 ph motors make for smoother machine operation. I would just change the motor to a single phase 110/220 motor.
BUT it seems to be a strange (to me) speed. Does it say 950 rpm?. Even so, a pulley about 1/2 the size of the present one would accomodate a std. 1750 rpm motor.

[b4dyc]

hi
I don`t know if its dual voltage, where would I find that out?
It does say 950 RPM on the motor for sure.
I was hoping for a simple solution although I do have a couple of 3/4 HP 240 volt motors lying around. I`m guessing that the cost of a new belt and a new pulley will put the cost near to a converter? Although I do not know...
As it is, it would make a top class anchor

[doubleboost]

If it is duel voltage it will be on the motor plate
I would go with single phase
John

[krv3000]

hi i wood go with a motor swap you say you have sum motors that will go on but you is not sure if the pulley will fit you don't need to by a new pulley or belt just mod the original pulley IE if the motor shaft on the new motor is to big mack the hole in the pulley to mach and if its the other way round mack a bos hope this helps o and do you remember them c5 bike things made by sicler well ther motors and gubings was made by hoover

[Hopefuldave]

Hi Andy,

Hoover made quite decent motors, way back then...

From the motor plate it seems it's star wound and (can't see for sure) 415 - 440V, so *if* you can get inside and find the star point, you can convert it to 240V 3-phase and use a cheap VFD by bringing the windings out and wiring it in delta - That'd be my choice, a VFD's slight overkill on a shaper, but the soft-start etc. are well worth having! If you're really lucky, there'll be a set of six terminals where the 3-phase comes in with one each for the phases, the other 3 linked - if so, swing the links so they go "across pairs" instead of down one side and it'll be in delta connection. A VFD putting out 750W / 0.75KVA will be plenty for a 3/4 HP motor. A 415V VFD can be run from 240V too, but you need to "derate" it by 30 to 50% if you're going to do it?

Re the 950 RPM, that'll be because it's a 6-pole motor (as opposed to the usual 2 or 4) - "pole switching" on motors can give a range of speeds, my lathe uses a 4 - 6 - 8 pole motor for 1440, 950 and 720 RPM, although only the 4 - 8 pole is done with a single winding (tapped in the middle), the 6-pole's a separate winding, this is probably why it needs 9 wires into the switchgear and is almost dustbin-sized! It does make the full 3 HP in each speed, though... And with a 5HP VFD on it providing 415V from 240V single-phase it gives quite a wide speed range :) The "hack" to get a 415V VFD to run from 240V is pretty simple, easier on older, cheaper and *bulkier* VFDs from Ebay!

Just my ha'pennorth,
Dave H. (the other one)

[stevec]

(06-26-2012, 06:50 AM)b4dyc Wrote: hi
I don`t know if its dual voltage, where would I find that out?
It does say 950 RPM on the motor for sure.
I was hoping for a simple solution although I do have a couple of 3/4 HP 240 volt motors lying around. I`m guessing that the cost of a new belt and a new pulley will put the cost near to a converter? Although I do not know...
As it is, it would make a top class anchor

Go with a 3/4 HP 240V motor you have. A new pulley (about 1/2 the Dia.) and belt will be WAY less cost than a converter.

[b4dyc]

Thanks for the replies guys
I have had a little look in the motor and it only has three wires in the back so the motor will need to be tinkered with if this can be converted
I have ordered a workshop practise book on the subject so I can read and try to understand better what is going on along with the forums help I hope I can fix the motor up and run it with a converter. The pulley and belt is a c section so a fairly big beast its also a double pulley for two speeds. I did read that I might be able to run the motor with a run capacitor rather than a complete speed control unit?
Anyway, thats why I need to do a bit more research

[Hopefuldave]

Andy,
"I did read that I might be able to run the motor with a run capacitor rather than a complete speed control unit? "

This can work with *small* 3-phase motors (e.g. coolant pumps), but is a pretty poor way to get a larger motor working - google "static phase convertor" and you'll find that for sensibly sized motors there are all kinds of other bits (contactors, voltage-sensing relays etc.), as the capacitor value needs to change with load, which on a shaper is going to be twice per stroke - eek! The results aren't so hot, the phase relationship *isn't* 120-degrees between phases, and the "phase" voltages aren't equal - often not even close! This loses one of the big benefits of a 3-phase motor, the smooth torque delivery which *does* have results in surface finish quality etc.

A small (e.g. 1KVA power-output) "hackable" 415V 3-phase-in VFD might be the best way to go (no need to open up the motor and dig out the star pint or add extra wires out to reconnect in delta) - mine (5HP derated to 3HP as I'm running it single-phase in, an old ABB ACS300 series) cost me all of £25 with a bit of Ebay-ninja exercise, the "hack" cost me about 50p... For that and some head-scratching over the control circuits and VFD programming I have infinitely variable speed, soft-start to be gentle to my 60-year-old machine and its irreplaceable motor, instant reverse (not needed on a shaper!) etc.

Just my ha'pennorth,
Dave H. (the other one)