Plumbing companies.

[Highpower]

I've got this feeling that I should have the local hospital do a rape kit on me. Maybe I'm wrong, so you tell me.

We had to get a new water heater installed by professional plumbers for the first time in my life, since I'm not up to doing it myself anymore. Long story short... installed a new 40 gal Nat gas water heater, small expansion tank, pressure regulator, a couple of ball valves and about 16' of 3/4" (M) copper pipe. Not a single fitting was sweated together. Everything slapped together with a couple dozen pro-press fittings all waiting to start leaking as far as I'm concerned. And looks like shite to boot. All for a mere $4,700

I installed our last water heater myself for around $600 - $700 and 2 hours of my time.

   

   

[EdK]

(09-27-2024, 08:06 PM)Highpower Wrote: I've got this feeling that I should have the local hospital do a rape kit on me. Maybe I'm wrong, so you tell me.

We had to get a new water heater installed by professional plumbers for the first time in my life, since I'm not up to doing it myself anymore. Long story short... installed a new 40 gal Nat gas water heater, small expansion tank, pressure regulator, a couple of ball valves and about 16' of 3/4" (M) copper pipe. Not a single fitting was sweated together. Everything slapped together with a couple dozen pro-press fittings all waiting to start leaking as far as I'm concerned. And looks like shite to boot. All for a mere $4,700

I installed our last water heater myself for around $600 - $700 and 2 hours of my time.

That's ridiculous! I thought the $1870 I had to pay to get a new gas 30 gallon hot water heater installed earlier in this year to be a bit too much and that was with the senior discount. But no way I could do it myself since I'm an old fart.  

Ed

[rubes]

Man...that's out of control!! Sorry for you.
I dread the day (i know its coming sooner than I would like) that I cant do that kind of stuff for myself.
I have to assume you had an estimate? and that you shopped around. or was that a surprise bill?

[rleete]

My house was built in 1949. When I moved in, during spring of 1986, based on what I saw, I believe the heater was original to the house.

In 1988 or so, the heater was shot. I replaced it myself, using the lessons I learned from my father. After 10 years, that one burst (rusted out), and made a huge mess. I replaced that one as well. That one lasted almost exactly one year after the warranty expired, so I replaced it with the same make and model, thinking it would be an easy swap. Nope, they made the new one 1-1/2" shorter, so I had to redo the plumbing. Each time, the heaters were about 1.5 times the cost of the previous one, and installation cost nearly double of the price of the heater itself.

[Highpower]

(09-28-2024, 09:41 AM)rubes Wrote: Man...that's out of control!! Sorry for you.
I dread the day (i know its coming sooner than I would like) that I cant do that kind of stuff for myself.
I have to assume you had an estimate? and that you shopped around. or was that a surprise bill?

Well, I guess I should post this as a public service announcement for all.
PLEASE get your combustible heat appliance vent stacks inspected at least annually.


A couple of weeks ago my entire family came close to dying in our sleep. No joke.
My wife and I started having headaches. One morning I woke up and thought I smelled something 'funny'. I asked her if she smelled anything and she said no, but she doesn't have a great sense of smell anyway. The next morning we had headaches again and my daughter said she felt a bit dizzy...  

I had my wife go down to the basement with a flashlight to have a good look at our flue pipes. She took pictures for me and it wasn't pretty. I immediately had her turn off the gas to the water heater, and open up the doors and windows to air out the house. And YES - we have smoke / carbon monoxide detectors on every level of the house. Not ONE of them set off an alarm.  

About 2 years ago I bought all new duct work and elbows after cleaning my furnace and noticed things getting rusty inside the duct work. I also bought a new inducer fan for the furnace because the fan blades were also starting to rust. I was ready to replace it all myself when I started having issues with my leg. Followed later on by an amputation. I haven't been able to get back in my basement since then and the duct work slipped my mind.

Anyway since I had to hire someone now to replace the duct work I wanted to replace the water heater along with it. Nothing really wrong with it other than being 12 years old, and I wanted to get a shorter tank to improve the amount of draft in the flue to get a better exhaust flow.

I called 3 different plumbing companies to get quotes. One never called back. The second one wanted to send out two different crews and charge me twice. One crew for the duct work and another for the plumbing. Two separate service charges. The third company came out and said they would do the water heater and the plumbing but not until the duct work was replaced by an HVAC company.  

I broke down and had a HVAC company come out and replace the duct work and the inducer fan in my furnace. The young man that came out said he would use all my parts since I already had them and he would just charge me for the labor.  
I now have a new "go-to" HVAC guy from now on!  

After two weeks of not having hot water I had to submit to plumbing company #3 to get it done. Well almost. I still need to get my chimney liner replaced since it has rotted through as well. Which means yet another company i have to deal with. The good news is the chimney company can also replace the drier vent hood the plumbers broke outside while moving in/out the water heaters. (Which they never mentioned.) The wife found it after they left.  

I looked up the cost of the water heater they installed. It retails for $1000 - $1200. The rest is for not a lot of copper pipe, fittings and 3 hours of labor.  

[EdK]

(09-28-2024, 04:56 PM)Highpower Wrote:

(09-28-2024, 09:41 AM)rubes Wrote: Man...that's out of control!! Sorry for you.
I dread the day (i know its coming sooner than I would like) that I cant do that kind of stuff for myself.
I have to assume you had an estimate? and that you shopped around. or was that a surprise bill?

Well, I guess I should post this as a public service announcement for all.
PLEASE get your combustible heat appliance vent stacks inspected at least annually.


A couple of weeks ago my entire family came close to dying in our sleep. No joke.
My wife and I started having headaches. One morning I woke up and thought I smelled something 'funny'. I asked her if she smelled anything and she said no, but she doesn't have a great sense of smell anyway. The next morning we had headaches again and my daughter said she felt a bit dizzy...  

I had my wife go down to the basement with a flashlight to have a good look at our flue pipes. She took pictures for me and it wasn't pretty. I immediately had her turn off the gas to the water heater, and open up the doors and windows to air out the house. And YES - we have smoke / carbon monoxide detectors on every level of the house. Not ONE of them set off an alarm.  

About 2 years ago I bought all new duct work and elbows after cleaning my furnace and noticed things getting rusty inside the duct work. I also bought a new inducer fan for the furnace because the fan blades were also starting to rust. I was ready to replace it all myself when I started having issues with my leg. Followed later on by an amputation. I haven't been able to get back in my basement since then and the duct work slipped my mind.

Anyway since I had to hire someone now to replace the duct work I wanted to replace the water heater along with it. Nothing really wrong with it other than being 12 years old, and I wanted to get a shorter tank to improve the amount of draft in the flue to get a better exhaust flow.

I called 3 different plumbing companies to get quotes. One never called back. The second one wanted to send out two different crews and charge me twice. One crew for the duct work and another for the plumbing. Two separate service charges. The third company came out and said they would do the water heater and the plumbing but not until the duct work was replaced by an HVAC company.  

I broke down and had a HVAC company come out and replace the duct work and the inducer fan in my furnace. The young man that came out said he would use all my parts since I already had them and he would just charge me for the labor.  
I now have a new "go-to" HVAC guy from now on!  

After two weeks of not having hot water I had to submit to plumbing company #3 to get it done. Well almost. I still need to get my chimney liner replaced since it has rotted through as well. Which means yet another company i have to deal with. The good news is the chimney company can also replace the drier vent hood the plumbers broke outside while moving in/out the water heaters. (Which they never mentioned.) The wife found it after they left.  

I looked up the cost of the water heater they installed. It retails for $1000 - $1200. The rest is for not a lot of copper pipe, fittings and 3 hours of labor.  

[Highpower]

(09-28-2024, 06:01 PM)EdK Wrote:

Yeah, that was the same look on my face too when they gave me the quotes.

   

And by the way - what I had ASKED them to do was to replace the gate valve BELOW the water meter with a new ball valve. The gate valve is original to the house (1937) and doesn't shut off all the way. It still leaks water through when "closed". Instead of doing what I asked they put a ball valve in AFTER the water meter. So the next time the water company wants to come out and replace the meter it will end up flooding my basement floor again while they work on changing out the meter. I've tried to get the water company to replace that valve in the past, but they won't do it. They will only change out the meter and nothing else. You just can't win.

[rubes]

(09-28-2024, 04:56 PM)Highpower Wrote: A couple of weeks ago my entire family came close to dying in our sleep. No joke.
And YES - we have smoke / carbon monoxide detectors on every level of the house. Not ONE of them set off an alarm.  

Thats way more scary than those quotes!!!

Had a similar experience once too. Got up at 3am to go to work one morning and felt like crap. We had a huge snow dump overnight so I decided I'll just call in, and went back to bed. Several hours later was awakened by the CO detector going off.
Turned out the heat ex-changer in the furnace had started rusting and a few pinholes broke thru.
But, same as you,  if it was bad enough to get me sick, why didnt the detector go off till so much later?
The detector was in the same room as  the furnace, and the bedroom is on the opposite end of the house.

[Highpower]

(09-28-2024, 09:11 PM)rubes Wrote: But, same as you,  if it was bad enough to get me sick, why didn't the detector go off till so much later?
The detector was in the same room as  the furnace, and the bedroom is on the opposite end of the house.

Because CO detectors now days are worthless unless you buy a low level detector. The standard smoke / CO detectors in my house are not designed to alarm unless it detects deadly amounts of CO for a certain amount of time. Apparently it's OK with those who write the standards to breathe higher levels of carbon monoxide intermittently as long as it doesn't exceed a specified time period.    

Since it is still summertime the only thing running was the water heater very occasionally. Had it been the middle of winter with the furnace running off and on all day/night long as well the CO detectors might have gone off.

I pulled out the paperwork for my "First Alert" detectors:

Quote:REGULATORY INFORMATION FOR
SMOKE/CO ALARMS
REGULATORY INFORMATION FOR CO ALARMS
WHAT LEVELS OF CO CAUSE AN ALARM?
Underwriters Laboratories Inc. Standard UL2034 requires residential CO
Alarms to sound when exposed to levels of CO and exposure times as
described below. They are measured in parts per million (ppm) of CO
over time (in minutes).
UL2034 Required Alarm Points*:
• If the alarm is exposed to 400 ppm of CO, IT MUST ALARM
BETWEEN 4 and 15 MINUTES.
• If the alarm is exposed to 150 ppm of CO, IT MUST ALARM
BETWEEN 10 and 50 MINUTES.
• If the alarm is exposed to 70 ppm if CO, IT MUST ALARM
BETWEEN 60 and 240 MINUTES.
* Approximately 10% COHb exposure at levels of 10% to 95% Relative
Humidity (RH).
The unit is designed not to alarm when exposed to a constant level
of 30 ppm for 30 days.
CO Alarms are designed to alarm before there is an immediate life
threat. Since you cannot see or smell CO, never assume it’s not present.
• An exposure to 100 ppm of CO for 20 minutes may not affect
average, healthy adults, but after 4 hours the same level may cause
headaches.
• An exposure to 400 ppm of CO may cause headaches in average,
healthy adults after 35 minutes, but can cause death after 2 hours.
Standards: Underwriters Laboratories Inc. Single and Multiple Station
carbon monoxide alarms UL2034.
According to Underwriters Laboratories Inc. UL2034, Section 1-1.2:
“Carbon monoxide alarms covered by these requirements are intended
to respond to the presence of carbon monoxide from sources such as,
but not limited to, exhaust from internal-combustion engines, abnormal
operation of fuel-fired appliances, and fireplaces. CO Alarms are intended
to alarm at carbon monoxide levels below those that could cause a loss
of ability to react to the dangers of Carbon Monoxide exposure.” This CO
Alarm monitors the air at the Alarm, and is designed to alarm before CO
levels become life threatening. This allows you precious time to leave
the house and correct the problem. This is only possible if Alarms are
located, installed, and maintained as described in this manual.

I have a personal low level CO detector that you wear on your person/tool bag meant for use by service techs. It's default settings for the alarms are 35PPM for the "low" alert, (heads up!) and 200PPM for the "high" alert (meaning GET OUT NOW!). When we weren't feeling well I turned it on to check the level in the house but the battery was dead. I hadn't used it for a couple of years. It uses a not so common lithium battery (1/2AA) that is soldered onto the PCB of the detector. By the time I ordered another battery and waited for it to be delivered it was already too late. Of course the manufacturer wants you to just throw it away and buy another detector ($300) when the battery goes dead. "No user serviceable parts inside."

No thank you! Working like a champ again and hopefully I'll still be around to replace it again 2 years from now. 

[Highpower]

I ordered one of these adapters from a company that had them listed as IN STOCK and they charged my credit card. A week later they said they don't have any....  

I am looking for ideas on how I can reproduce the center portion of this adapter (now out of production) using off the shelf fittings / plugs etc. The nipples fit 3/16" ID tubing. All the adapter does is sit over the sensor of my meter using a foam / rubber washer to seal it at the bottom. Gas flows into one nipple on top down to the sensor, and any excess gas is vented out through the other (open) nipple. So somehow I have to make one.  

   


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