Cylinder lease question

[Highpower]

I have a question for those who have leased a cylinder in the past, and returned them at the end of the lease.

Did you get a written receipt that documented the fact you actually did return the cylinder? Description, date and time ect.?

I have two leased cylinders that I am going to return soon just to get out from under the leases early. The place I leased them from turned out to be a very sketchy company with questionable business practices. I will be returning these ahead of my lease expiration dates and I want written documentation from them that both cylinders were returned to them.

The reason for this is because they have tried to extort money out of me in the past, by saying I failed to pay for some items in a purchase. Threatened to turn me over to a collection agency. I had the receipts for all of it showing paid in full. The billing dept manager basically called me a liar and said they were going to file suit against me. Turns out they did the internal paperwork incorrectly so it was their fault all along, but I never even got so much as an apology out of them.

Based on this, I am expecting things to go one of two ways when I do return the cylinders.
1) They will refuse to give me anything in writing showing I returned their property.
2) They will say they can't print out a receipt right then and there, and they will "mail" it to me at a later date.

Of course that day will never come, so when the lease(s) do expire they will say I never returned the cylinders and threaten to sue me once again. And of course at that point I won't have any "proof" that I already returned them.

One of them is a 20 year lease, so I've never had to deal with returning a cylinder to them before. But because of my previous dealings with them I am expecting the worst.  

I also have a third cylinder that I PURCHASED from them (not leased) that will be another issue at a later time.

[EdK]

Have someone go with you and video the whole deal.

Ed

[Highpower]

If I am not mistaken I believe they have "No cameras allowed" posted around the place. I think they have taken a page from the US postal service regulations that say it's ok for us to video record you - but you can't video record US!

I may be wrong about that, or maybe it has changed (doubtful). One thing I don't want to do is give them any kind of excuse.
I'll have to check for signs again when I go.

[Vinny]

There was a guy on the Slickdeals Harbor Freight forum that would go into HF and his glasses had a camera and mic built into it. Noone knew he was recording it.

[Dr Stan]

Ditto on a witness and taking video of the return. Since it is a public place they do not have the legal right to restrict you from recording. You could also take along a form you have created stating the items have been returned and insist the employee sign said form.

Take along the biggest "friend" you can find, maybe a couple of them. Is Missouri an open carry state?

[Highpower]

I already have copies of both leases I am going to take with me just in case. I will NOT hand them the original (customers) copies. And I can "insist" on something until I am blue in the face. It won't change a thing.

Missouri is open carry under state law. Cities within the state have their own local laws making it illegal. Good luck not getting arrested. A prominent firearms law attorney in the state has stated that his retainer for anyone wanting to become the test case for challenging those laws is a 55 gallon drum filled to the brim with $100 bills. No takers yet...

Threats and/or intimidation on their private property, under their security cameras?  
Nope. Not gonna happen. I'm not giving them ANY chance of finding a way to try and hang me with more fees and penalties listed on the back of the rental/legal agreements by doing something stupid.

Even if the two rental returns go smoothly I still have another cylinder that I purchased that I am pretty sure will end up with attorneys involved. Even though I "own" the cylinder, several years ago they started charging me (and allegedly everyone else who had purchased cylinders from them outright) a "maintenance fee" every year to cover the costs of hydro-testing the cylinder - whether you bring it back to be exchanged/refilled or not. I call it extortion because the tank hasn't been back to them once in the last 15 years and never will again. I want that to end as well.

This is the ONLY welding supply I have ever been to that has given me these kinds of problems. Unfortunately all the places I used to go all closed up years ago and I made the mistake of going there because they are the closest to me.  

[TomG]

Why do you lease at all? I purchased my first set and just exchange them as needed. I've only been nicked once with a hydro testing fee ($40) because one expired on my watch.

Tom

[Highpower]

(09-23-2019, 08:44 AM)TomG Wrote: Why do you lease at all?

Tom

Because size matters.  

30 years ago welding supply places around here stopped "selling" anyone a cylinder over a certain size (usually 40 cu. ft.). Your only option to get a larger tank is to lease them now. Getting small cylinders filled costs 2 - 3 time more to fill than a large cylinder and you end up having to fill them more often.

But since I don't do near as much welding as I used to I did buy a couple of smaller 80 cu. ft. cylinders (from a different company of course) to use so I can get rid of these large leased tanks once and for all.

My large oxy/acet tanks I bought many, many years ago (different welding supply no longer in existence) I have an actual title for. Never been a problem getting them exchanged. Don't have to pay any extortion money... um, er, "maintenance fees". But then I've never taken them to the   place I'm having to deal with now. Same for all my other assorted small cylinders I own.

The only reason I went there for the large tanks is because they are the closest to me.

[TomG]

Must be a benefit of living near a big city. My 125 cu. ft. oxygen tank is available from any of the surrounding welding shops. Not sure if they sell larger ones or not.

Tom

[Highpower]

I suppose so. Too many people taking cylinders home and never returning them. People would also swap them out at different companies and then be unable to return the original cylinder. Several years ago they started attaching RFID chips to the cylinders and bar-coding them to track them. Those people would then get a bill in the mail for $1,000 per cylinder for reimbursement plus late fees and interest compound daily.  

The majority of the supply's around here will no longer service or swap a cylinder anymore unless it is one of their own. So if you come in with a different company's cylinder to swap it, they just confiscate them and you get nothing back. They consider EVERYBODY a thief now so if you just look at them funny they are on the phone to a collection agency right off the hop.

That is where I am going to have a problem with them on one of my larger "purchased" cylinders. I have a paid sales receipt for it (no lease) but of course they never sent me a title for it. <---- I was wrong about that. So guess what they are going to say about who 'owns' that cylinder now....