Walter FaceMill Choice

[ronboult]

Hi Pixman
Sorry to trouble you with one more Q that I can't answer from the Walter 2012 catalogue

Took your advice and went searching for ODHT0504ZZN-G88 Grade WXN15 inserts as I do a lot of my machining in Alu.

Unfortunately I have been presented with two choices ODHT0504ZZN-G88 WXN15 and ODHT050408-G88 WXN15. What is the difference?
From what I can find out the ODHT050408 has a 0,8mm radius somewhere but I can find no info what the ZZN relates to. Do either of these inserts have specific uses?
The steel cutting inserts that I won with the F4088 are the ZZN format i.e. ODMT0504ZZN-D57 grade WKP35S which I believe have a tough long lasting edge.

Hope you can you assist. There may be other members who may like to know as well. The array of Walter and other brand inserts is quite overwhelming for a hobbyist like me.
Ron

[PixMan]

Ron,

The "ZZN" designation means they are essentially a sharp corner albeit with a .002" (0.05mm) flat that is parallel to the milling plane. The choice of using the ZZN relates to the F2280 and F4080 cutters have a 43º lead angle. If it was a true 45º, that designation would be ANN, and if the cutter was an F4047 with a 75º lead angle the inserts would be ENN and so forth. Check page F6 if you have the current General Catalog 2012.

In my experience I've used the radius corner ones on my F4033 cutter, SNMX120512-F57 and find that while the radius corners are stronger and can take a little more abuse, the finish is better with that little wiper flat on the SNMX1205ANN-F57 inserts I have.

Hope this helps.

Ken

[ronboult]

Well my F4080 Face Mill has arrived and my first impressions are that it is first rate quality. The finnish is considerably better than any of my other Chinese models. It is actually smaller than I envisaged but that will suit my Bench Top Mill fine as it is only 1.5Hp.

The inserts that were supplied are interesting ODMT0504ZZN-D57 grade WKP35S, 8 cutting edges which should give good economy despite their cost. These I believe are general purpose for steel and on Pixmans advice I am on the lookout for some specific to Alu i.e.

The ODHT0504ZZN-G88 Grade WX10 or WXN15 which have sharper edges for a better Finnish in Alu. Unfortunately it uses the smaller 0504 size which does not seem as readily available as the 0605 Size ODHT inserts. Only place I can find the size and grade I want is Grainger and they want $23 USD ( about $32Au) each. Ouch. Will keep looking.



   

   

   

   

Ron

[ronboult]

My next issue is where to get a suitable arbor for the F4080. The F4080.B16.050.Z04.03 designation is that it has a metric bore of 16mm. My mill has a R8 spindle and I have been able to find two R8-16mm Face mill arbors from the UK. 
However My mill takes a lot of cranks to raize and lower the head and a R8 arbor requires a lot of travel for removal. General a pain in the butt!!!!!

For this reason I have adopted the Tormach quick change tooling system even though the mill is not CNC. The Tormach system uses a short 3/4 " tool shank that fits in a 3/4" R8 collet.

Unfortunately Tormach do not make a 16mm arbor ( only 1/2") and I cannot obtain a 16mm Arbor from my Chinese Supplier who can only supply the more common 22mm version. see Photo

   

I therefore seem to have only four options

1 Purchase a R8-16mm arbor and put up with the long shank and considerable winding to move the head up and down. Not a good option in my view.

2 Machine a 22mm Tormach Chinese copy arbor down to 16mm. This is not really practical as the attachment screw for locking the Mill head is 10mm and won't fit through the F4080. When I machine the 22mm down to 16mm and sleeve the thread down to 8mm there won't be a lot of steel left to support the Mill head.

3 Purchase a Genuine Tormach Arbor blank and make my own arbor. 
   

This is possible but I don't have a surface grinder to fine finish the mounting shank for the mill head. Would a turned arbor be accurate enough for this purpose?

4 Purchase a Genuine Tormach 1/2" facemill arbor and sleeve it to 16mm
      . 
This seems the most suitable option.

What do members suggest?
Ron

[Mayhem]

You're not going to like it but I would go with a dedicated R8 arbor.

[ronboult]

Hi Darren (Mayhem), I think you are right that a R8 to 16mm arbor is the obvious choice. It should give the minimum runout and I will probably buy one to get started.
However I really like the Tormach system and would still like to try options 3 or 4. Just not sure which would give the better result. May have to try both and see what turns out best. Its only money and a bit of machining time.

If I mount a tormach blank arbor in a ER32 collet on the lathe do you think the run out will be be tolerable?
Thanks
Ron

[Mayhem]

I think that mounting it in a 4 jaw and indicating it would be the optimal choice. Perhaps you should make up a power feed for your z axis.

[PixMan]

I have to agree with Darren. An integral one-piece R8 shell mill adapter is going to keep the total length of the tool minimized and that gives you better finishes, more rigid operation. That helps achieve better tool life too, as an added benefit.

As for the ODHT inserts for aluminum, just use the ones you have for now and just about the time you give up (or just after) there will pop up a bargain on some.

[PixMan]

Any updates on getting your cutter fitted to the machine? Have you started using the cutter yet?

[ronboult]

Hi Pixman
I have ordered a R8/16mm arbor but shipping to Au is snail pace. I dont expect to have it for several weeks and I will be away most of Nov. I also will order a Tormach blank arbor and have a go at making my own 16mm arbor. I may not be able to control the run out but no harm in having a go. Its only money & time! Would doing a final skim to 16mm running in the mill spindle be a good idea?

In the meantime I have been playing with my new 13x 40 Sieg Runnmaster Lathe. Runnmaster was originally a Taiwanese company but now Chinese manufacture. A few issues but I am mostly happy with the quality. Love having the opportunity to purchase all new tooling for the new machine.

Also took the opportunity to purchase some new inserts for my Chinese 45deg and shoulder face mills .  They are suggested for machining Alu and are polished and uncoated.
These are Korloy brand SEHT1204AFFN-X83-H01 & APKT1604PDFR-MA-H01. It will be interesting to compare with the Walter mill when the arbor arrives. Will report my observations for what they are worth.
Would you care to comment on Korloy brand inserts as they are very commonly available
Cheers
Ron