What insert profile

[aRM]

(04-15-2015, 09:42 AM)DaveH Wrote: Close ..............  SCLCR you missed the last "C" out otherwise you are correct.
Just before you go out and buy something let's just get Ken's opinion if the 80deg Rhombic is the way to go. May be there is another way like the Trigon insert.
Ken is more up to date than I am.

DaveH

Hello  DAVID
Yup U  right,  SCLCR it should be.

Just to keep U in the spin, checked with the local ISCAR Guys in Durbs - Your  CCMT 09 T Insert will fit a SCLCR 1616 H09 Toolholder, not the 2020 I was after.
The manager did suggest we take that 1616 as it is not only cheaper, but will fit Your insert, and all we need do is just Shim it 4mm to get it to ride centre.  So that settles the Toolholder.

Now U getting to talk alien, with the invasion of the Rhombics in the Trigon Wars and us puny earthlings being taken over by the "Pariahs".  Well, we will just have to call-in for reinforcements and  'Wrustle' our way through this war !!!
Seems like this is not going to be a walk in the park - so we not making any rash moves here.
Will wait to hear from U Guys
aRM

[DaveH]

aRM
Walter, Kennametal and Sandviv Coromant all do a 2020 holder for the 09 insert.
 
DaveH

[aRM]

(04-16-2015, 02:28 AM)DaveH Wrote: aRM
Walter, Kennametal and Sandviv Coromant all do a 2020 holder for the 09 insert.
 
DaveH

DAVE
We been speaking to the Iscar Man and he wanted to know why I wanted to take a two-sided Insert when He could give me a SIX-Sided one for my PCLNR Holder.
Well we informed him about Your take on Positive / Negative Rakes, Your choice of one One insert for Boring as well and the way we needed to go. So he gets back with what U cutting and boring depth et al. We supplied the info he asked for and will only know tomorrow what he recommends.

We have not totally decided which Insert we will need to get seeing that U were talking more about Rhombic etc. These are shapes U were referring to, right ???
Let's just see what the Iscar Man suggests and talk some more tomorrow.
Cheers for now
aRM

[DaveH]

(04-16-2015, 10:25 AM)aRM Wrote: Let's just see what the Iscar Man suggests and talk some more tomorrow.
Cheers for now
aRM

Good idea aRM it's always good  to get different opinions. I know it can be a bit confusing at times but at the end of the day you will be able to make a good informed choice of what is best for you.

DaveH

[aRM]

Good idea aRM it's always good  to get different opinions. I know it can be a bit confusing at times but at the end of the day you will be able to make a good informed choice of what is best for you.

DaveH

[/quote]
Hello there DAVE
OK - we know U don't like the Negative Inserts and have said Your piece about the Positives. But hear me out. I can't disagree with Your wisdom nor Your expertise or shop experience. I did find an article or two on the advantages of each and am in no way qualified to make any judgements or decisions.
However, Iscar have suggested both CNMG and WNMG Inserts for us to choose from. The only reason we think we ought to go their way is that I will be able to use my existing Tooling on either of these - although they are Negatives.

The ones they recommended are
CNMG 120404 F3P 8250 in Grade OR 907
WNMG 06T302-NF in same Grade U said IC907

He gave me a good Price on Your CCMT but downplayed making this complete change in Tooling as well.

At this point in time, like U said earlier, we are the more confused.

If we go for the Walters, we will have to get both the Medium Roughing and Finishing Inserts which is just over Two Grand. What is a bit befuddling with these is that will we have to change either the Toolholder or the Insert to take the Finishing cuts ??? This is not sinking in our kop - considering the practical cutting with these. On the other hand we only have to take either one of the Iscar Inserts, barring Your highly recommended CCMT's.

Bottom line if One has to ask me, I think we go with the WNMG's seeing that they are exactly the Grade U recommended, albeit in Negative profile.

What would U finally say, MENEER ???
aRM

[DaveH]

(04-17-2015, 02:22 PM)aRM Wrote: What would U finally say, MENEER ???
aRM

I say 'go for it'    I'm sure that insert comes in 'SF' as well did he mention it at all?

DaveH

[aRM]

(04-17-2015, 02:39 PM)DaveH Wrote:

(04-17-2015, 02:22 PM)aRM Wrote: What would U finally say, MENEER ???
aRM

I say 'go for it'    I'm sure that insert comes in 'SF' as well did he mention it at all?

DaveH

DAVE
He mentioned NF and SM
Should we ask for SF specifically ???
aRM

[PixMan]

I fail to understand why, if you already have good holders for WNMG and for CNMG inserts you feel the need to get yet another external holder for screw down CCMT/CCGT 09T30x size inserts. Sure, I get it that using a smaller insert allows you to have both turning tools and boring tools which use the same insert. Just keep in mind how much cheaper the WNMG and CNMG inserts are per edge. Because they are far more common, they are the same price or usually less per insert than a screw down, and you get at least twice as many edges because you can flip them over. You can't do that with a screw down insert.

Another consideration for external turning is you say you have to rough out square or perhaps flame cut crap into round. No screw down insert is going to be as strong as a negative rake CNMG or WNMG insert for that. True that your machine at 3HP is right on the edge of being able to use negative rake CNMG & WNMG, but they still make better economic sense. You may be losing sight of the initial goal, which when I read back to the beginning was to get more consistent finishes. That's definitely more a case of adjusting cutting speed and feed rate than choosing a screw down insert over the negative rake ones for which you already have holders.

I'm confused.

[DaveH]

Ken,
He is going to purchase some WNMG negative rake inserts, I think he was just looking at the different options available and also trying to make sense of it all.
 
DaveH

[PixMan]

OK. So now I'm wondering why the Iscar is a better option. A chipbreaker design is a chipbreaker design. No company has a magic bullet that hits every target in the center, and no insert maker has one chipbreaker design that is going to break chips in every material at every depth of cut and feed rate.

I gave two chipbreakers in a single grade which cover the widest range of those materials, cutting parameters and workpiece configurations of any inserts I know and have tested. I'm out.