Request for service - lathe related.

[Hopefuldave]

Rick, I'm assuming you have the proper hard felt for wipers - any pointers as to where to get some, I need to make up a set as part of the "continuing process" on my lathe... The originals were about 1/4" thick, but seem to have disintegrated over the last 50-some years!

Cheers,
Dave H. (the other one)

[EdK]

Speaking of felt wipers, what type of felt would be the best for wipers?

Ed

[Hopefuldave]

Hi Ed,
I'm told the type used for piano dampers and orchestral drum beaters works well - but can I find any...?
Anyway, really dense pure wool felt's supposed to be the traditional material, the sort that barely gives under thumbnail pressure.

Dave H. (the other one)

[stevec]

OK, I gotta ask, before someone else does. Where do I go to get felt?
My Aunt apparently asked that of the elevator operator in a department store (back in the days of elevator operators).

[Rickabilly]

I have a supplier here in Cambridge, "Mackays" the trick is to use normal run of the mill felt and put enough under the clamping plate to compress it down until it is very firm, so what I do is make the plates with folded lips around the edges with only the wiping edge free for the felt to poke out of, I make the lips the same length as one felt sheet thickness and put two thicknesses of felt under the plate as you tighten the screws the felt is compressed, Job done.

Rick

[Rickabilly]

Back in Oz I once used an old Akubra hat to "harvest" some felt for wipers, OK not ideal, but the hat was ruined before I got to it and it's probably still working now. It's not the actual fibre that matters, it's all about the way the fibres are interlocked that makes it work, and all felt is the same in this respect. I believe that the hats are made from rabbit hairs!
Rick

[f350ca]

Rick has some good arguments for using felt but I'd sooner wipe the way clean with a rubber squeegee and remove as much swarf as I can than have it go under the saddle. I can't see the oil held in the felt being enough to lube the ways. If manufacturers like Hardinge use rubber wipers who am I to argue.

[Rickabilly]

Hello Greg,

No arguments here, My post was more about giving all the information in one place to help folks make up their minds.

As I have said I often use felt, however, I would rather use double lip style wipers except for the difficulty of adapting them to anything but flat ways, it is for this reason that I use felt.

Personally I would steer well clear of hard block style wipers but any of the others work well within the limitations of the particular design, for example; when using single lip wipers the operator must never use compressed air to blow swarf off the ways, as this often blows swarf under the single lip, double lip wipers will often have swarf between the blades showing how swarf gets past the first lip.

There is no doubt that Hardinge knows what they are doing and whatever they are using as wipers, they are no doubt the best type for their machines, I would guess from the photos I have seen that they are using double lip seals and potentially teflon seals at that, One example of such a machine is the HLV-H. I am no expert on these machines, but I know enough to be able to say that the bed style is highly unusual among lathes being a dovetail style rather than a flat or even prismatic ways and incorporating teflon lining on the carriage sliding surfaces as well as auto or semi auto lubrication. Given that the dovetail bed lends itself particularly well to double lip wipers, and is one of the few designs on which even the block style wipers could be quite effective, when correctly designed, installed and maintained.

It should also be noted though that with Hardinge being as expensive as they are, they could afford the time to get the installation of the more difficult style of wipers right. I would take care using just one feature of any Hardinge machine and applying it to all other machines as best practice, they are designed as complete systems and if any single feature is copied, the other linked features may be required to make the adaptation successful.

As always I hope that this post is of use explaining my opinions while being very clear that I absolutely respect yours, As I stated in that first long post the most important thing is that having wipers is a great idea, and any wipers are better than none.

And for the record; you are quite right, the oil stored in the felt is no where near enough to lube the ways, but it is enough to lube the swarf stuck in the felt to prevent it damaging the ways, the wipers should keep the oil in between the sliding faces, in position rather than providing a reservoir, this reservoir should be the oil supply grooves in the mating faces of the carriage.

Thanks for taking the time to read my posts as well, they are a bit long, I know.

Best Regards
Rick

[TomG]

This thread got me curious and I popped off the plastic wipers on my Hardinge to see how well they were doing their job and as it turns out, they weren't doing their job at all. There was all kinds of crud packed underneath them to the point where it was lifting the wipers off the ways. It appears that while Hardinge makes an excellent lathe, they don't know beans about how to make oil wipers. The next project on my list is going to be a set of aluminum wiper frames with a polyurethane foam insert for the wiper. I think the springiness of the foam will keep it pressed against the ways and keep them a lot cleaner than a molded hard plastic wiper.

BTW, there are no wipers on the tailstock of the Hardinge, only on the carriage and since it has an oiling system, felt is not required. South Bend used hard felt for wipers and it worked quite well, not only to keep debris out but to hold oil. You can get the stuff at McMaster Carr if you'd like to make your own.

Tom

[Rickabilly]

Hello Tom,
I know you've had the Hardinge for quite a while, have you ever removed the wipers to clean it before? and what kind of wipers are they? sounds like hard plastic blocks from what you have just posted, have you ever used compressed air to clean the ways?

Sorry about the Spanish inquisition.

I just assumed that the Hardinge would have double lip wipers as these really are stand out performers in my experience, On the upside the oiling system will usually flush any muck out of the important bits, so nothing to worry about really.

And the urethane Foam sounds like an excellent choice, Felt for the modern day really isn't it? it'd be better if it had teflon content, if you have the capacity and/or the inclination check out Goretex ptfe self adhesive foam strip, it comes on a roll, in various sizes, we used 3mm x 12mm for steam jointing, it was nice and slippery as well as super tough but nice and springy, Actually I am considering trying to find some for my machines now that I've remembered the stuff.

Rick