Thoughts About Small Lathe Tool Holders, Part 1

[f350ca]

Was at a tool dealer yesterday. Picked up a Wiliams threading tool. Been wanting to try one of these. This one looks like NOS
They had a HLV-H there Randy, for $3900 CDN think thats about $1200 US. Looked in reasonable shape but no tooling.

[randyc]

Greg, I've seen photos and drawings of that style tool holder since I became interested in machine tools fifty years ago and I always thought that it was an extremely clever idea.  What's not to like about never having to grind the flanks of a 60 degree threading tool ?  I like Armstrong (and Williams) tool holders but I've often wondered if the stick-out of that threading tool holder would be a problem.

I've had a couple of experiences with "normal" threading tools that (while the threads were not that large and the tool was nice and sharp) caused some moaning and groaning from the lathe and from me, too !  Maybe if you have some dead time to try it out (which seems unlikely since you stay real busy) you could tell us how well it works.  My opinion about these old tool holders is pretty obvious, LOL, I think that there are still applications where they are a natural fit !

That Hardinge would be around $3100 USD and if it was within driving distance, so that I could see it run, I'd be  ALL -  OVER  -  IT.  It would not even cross my mind to negotiate the price if it was functional, I'd just be schemin' on how to get it home on my motorcyclce trailer pulled by the Honda Civic, ha-ha-ha :o)  

Seriously, to my mind that is a GREAT price for a running HLV-H and seriously I WOULD buy it, tooling or not if it was close enough to be transportable.  Heck many hobbyists spend 90% of our garage time making tooling that we will use rarely - and often only one time to see if it works.

See now you've made me feel even worse 

cheers,
randyc

P.S.  FWIW, my 1945 Sheldon EXL-56B was at one time a Monarch.  The drawings and manufacturing rights were sold to Sheldon just prior to WW2.

[the penguin]

Somewhere in the depths of the basement, in a box, is a baggie with about 20 blades for that style Armstrong/ Williams threading tool.

[f350ca]

Great excuse for a heck of a road trip Randy. Its even 220 volt so no step up transformer required. I thought the price was low too, even without tooling. Came out of a prototype shop so SUPPOSABLY had little run time.
Will be giving the threading tool a try ASAP. Need to mill down the shank to get it into any of my holders. The body out to the cutter is quite stout.
Did they make blades with different nose radius for different pitches Jack? Can't see wearing one out too quick. It would take a lot of top dressing to consume the circumference of the blade.

[randyc]

Greg, if you're still following this, you have NO idea how tempted I am by the Hardinge that you saw.  I recently found this guy who seems to be as much of a perfectionist as you are and who re-birthed his HLV with the same care as you did:

https://www.csparks.com/hardinge/index.html

It's not that I have any particular use for the machine other than sitting in front of it with a glass of wine for a few hours every night   Still, for some that would be enough, LOL.

Sorry for the diversion -

[f350ca]

I appreciate the temptation. I somehow struggled through life before the Hardinge, but now life seams to have meaning. lol

On a lighter note, the shank on that threading tool is about 1 inch deep, my largest holder is about 3/4 so I was going to mill the shank down. A file said it was hard but how hard can it be. A 1 1/4 indexible end mill made sparks at 600 rpm. Plan B, make a bigger holder.

[randyc]

(08-24-2017, 10:21 PM)f350ca Wrote: ..................On a lighter note, the shank on that threading tool is about 1 inch deep, my largest holder is about 3/4 so I was going to mill the shank down. A file said it was hard but how hard can it be. A 1 1/4 indexible end mill made sparks at 600 rpm. Plan B, make a bigger holder.

We know that Armstrong-style tool holders were forged and my - obviously incorrect - former opinion was  that except for surface scale, forgings were not that hard.  I just dragged a file across several 3/4 Armstrong holders and it skidded off like they were made of HSS.

Can't think of a need for the holders to be that hard, maybe just a little bit for wear resistance ?  Perhaps to increase the yield strength ?  It's a mystery 

Regarding machine tool admiration (worship ?) I was visiting a friend two days ago, a retired millwright who now operates a very successful one-man shop to support some specialized local industries.  He has a Japanese-made gearhead lathe, around 18 inches, can't recall the manufacturer.  He made a 1,000 mile round trip to obtain it and has special feelings for this particular machine.

He made the comment that even after ten years, when visitors come into his shop, he watches to see their reaction when they see the lathe.  Maybe from an observer's perspective, it doesn't look like much but Stuart sure loves it !