To buy or not to buy

[Pete O]

G'day all, looking for some input on this universal mill that has come up 10 minutes from me on ebay.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/141656819204?...EBIDX%3AIT
I just went and had a look at it, it is obviously pretty old but doesn't appear to have done much work and seems to have been well looked after. The guy doesn't have 3-phase power so was not able to run it but it seems genuine.
It has geared drive to 3 axes, 1.5 hp 3-phase motor driving via a flat belt, the driven pulley incorporates some kind of clutch arrangement.
I'm wondering if I might find myself frustrated with a couple of limitations, namely the small vertical capacity with the vertical head fitted (the knee is all the way down in the photos), and particularly the slow spindle speeds- max is 375rpm. Would it be necessary, advantageous or even viable to increase the RPM capability of a machine like this? I would be running it either via a VFD or rotary phase convertor.
Included in the sale is a small milling vice (think it was 4") plus a few cutters. The guy also has a small dividing head (plus tailstock) that is made for this machine and can be powered from the table, doesn't want to include it in the sale but would sell it separately.

I'd love to get a bridgeport mill but they are way beyond the budget!

[Mayhem]

Hi Pete - being on the other side of the country to you I know how difficult it is to find decent machinery at a reasonable price. I did notice the slow spindle speed but my lathe tops out at 420 RPM and I manage to function quite well with it. Personally, unless the price starts getting too high, I'd buy it. You can always sell it if you find it doesn't meet your needs and I doubt that you would lose money.

Now I'm not a machinist by a long shot and I know nothing about horizontal machines, so you may wish to wait until others chime is just in case this is a machine to run away from...

[PixMan]

That's a decision only you can make. If it's the ONLY mill you'd own for a time (as in, the first one you buy), you might hold out for some more versatile. Drilling holes in many milled parts is a common thing, and it would be a matter of spotting holes with that machine then drilling on a drill press/pillar drill. Using carbide tooling would be a waste, you barely get enough speed to burn up HSS tools with that.

On the other hand, if you've got room and already have a turret mill, those things are nice for milling larger work with heavy cuts. That you can set it up as a horizontal is good for slab milling and slot milling. As Darren said, your local market determines value as much as its usefulness to you does. In his part of the country just about ANY milling machine is hard to come by, and with four bidders already I would expect the price to climb significantly. What's it worth to you?

[stevec]

Pete, might it be possible to adapt the overarm to accept a vertical mill head? That would give you more room from table to cutter, higher machining speed capabilities and the flexibility of TWO machines.  

Just a thought.

Steve

[TomG]

It looks like a nice machine to me.

I wouldn't be too concerned about the lack of a quill. Holes can always be drilled with a drill press. The fact that it does have a vertical attachment is a plus, but I would make sure that collets and end mill holders are available for whatever taper it has in the spindle. I would also get as much tooling with it as possible because it's probably going to be hard to find otherwise. Any horizontal cutters he may have would also be a plus because they are VERY expensive.

You may want to make him an offer early. If he can sell it to someone local, it would save him the trouble of shipping it. Oops! Nevermind. I see it already has some bids.

Tom

[Pete O]

This would be my first mill- and likely my last unless I could seriously persuade the good lady otherwise! There are about half a dozen horizontal cutters with it. I have plenty of room in the workshop, it's more the finance that is the limiting factor!

(05-11-2015, 06:39 AM)stevec Wrote: Pete, might it be possible to adapt the overarm to accept a vertical mill head? That would give you more room from table to cutter, higher machining speed capabilities and the flexibility of TWO machines.  

Just a thought.

Steve

That sounds like serious project material there Steve, I'm currently in the process of setting up a backyard foundry a la Artful Bodger....hmmm, some castings to attach an independently powered mill head to the top part of the machine, and use the existing power feed for the table...... a Frankenmill project sounds like fun.

I'm on the opposite side of the continent from Darren, but machinery is probably not much easier to come by over this side. Thumping huge, ancient, worn-out industrial machines are most of what is on offer. I have an unfortunate habit of getting excited about something that appears on eBay and then watching the price go to triple my budget in the last hour or so, there seem to be plenty of guys competing for the few machines that come up. The fact that this machine is so close, and could be loaded and unloaded from my trailer relatively easily, is a big plus.

[Sunset Machine]

Horizontals - I love 'em. My dialup isn't letting me see the details, but you indicated that a universal dividing head was available for the universal mill. Get it if you can. They can be more expensive than the mill, but spend most of their days on a shelf unused. Hard to justify down the road.

Slow spindles are their nature. What can you spin fast in a horizontal with their limited cross feed? These things are not drill presses and even endmills won't feel right. They are built for large diameter (and expensive) cutting tools. Mine goes down to 15 RPM.

I have a vertical head that is also seldom used. It's actually been years, but just the other day I had to boltcircle something so tall it wouldn't fit in the drill press. With a chuck on the dividing head, set at 45 degrees, and the vertical head also set at 45 I was able to get the job done.

Face mills, side mills, flycutters and form tools will be right at home. Some of these you can make yourself. A flycutter is simple and within reason, mine is like 10". You can mount a chuck and do some lathe turning; the swing is quite large.

I think it might be safe to say that horizontals and shapers belong in the same crowd of obsolete machines. A big draw to some, a complete turnoff to others.

[Dr Stan]

Given price, location, etc I do not see how you could get hurt.  From one of the tags on the mill it seems to be of German or Austrian origin.

As to adapting a BP type head I've seen more than one horizontal mill with that type of set-up, especially in mold making shops.

My suggestion is, go for it.

[Vinny]

According to the listing it's 2.5HP, not 1.5. Sunset, there weren't alot of details to see in that listing. All the info was in the questions. Pete, since you have the space and means to move it, if it's in your finances I'd say go for it especially since machines aren't that plentiful there. Same with the dividing head.

[hermetic]

Looks like very good quality kit to me, I would buy it in a heartbeat, If you find its not for you you certainly wont loose money on it, it would probably make £1500 in the UK