Walter FaceMill Choice

[PixMan]

Korloy is OK. But only OK not "Oh man do those things kick arse!"

A friend of mine has a Korloy "Ripper" mill for his 1992 Matsuura CNC machining center. The machine has a 6000 rpm spindle and no coolant-thru spindle. It does however, have TORQUE and he pushes tools hard. He complained to me one day that his Korloy cutter was noisy and the inserts (highly polished, uncoated) would start getting a "depth of cut notch" after 20 to 30 minutes of cut time.

I suggested he try a Walter F3040 cutter to see if it worked any better. The inserts for it (ZDGT150404R-K85 WXN15) are about 10% more and the cutter is at least 5x more money. After he started using it he texted me "the Walter cutter is about 30% less noisy, and I've made 300 gallons (1135 litres) of chips on a single edge." That's at least 30 HOURS of cut time. A week later I asked him how long the inserts lasted. He texted me back that he had made over 600 gallons of chips and finally indexed the inserts.

You won't see that kind of difference unless you were running the ODHT0504ZZN-G88 WXN15 inserts against the Korloy cutter.

[ronboult]

Pixman thanks for the reply.
As a hobby machinist my need is for excellent finish and ease of use rather than extreme long life. My machining is mostly small jobs and usually a one off. I suspect that even a box of Korloy inserts with 4 cutting edges will last me a long time. If the Walter mills & inserts provide a significant improvement in finish then I have no problem in purchasing them provided they are not to exorbitantly priced. Unfortunately so far I can only find Walter inserts from USA dealers which have them at what I can only assume is some sort of manufacturers list price and with the Au exchange rate and USA postage makes me hesitant given that I can probably use the funds on something more relevant to me at the moment. The 4088 with inserts that you recommended was a tremendous buy and I am hoping to give them a run before I have to go away in Nov. I will continue to keep a look out for Walter products on sale in the future

[ronboult]

My 16mm to R8 Face mill arbour finally arrived in the mail yesterday ( mail to Au is snail pace). I am going away for some time in 2 days time but I just couldn't resist putting a piece os 6061 Alu in the vice and making a few cuts. Used CRC66 as lubricant because I am out of WD40 but the results were very pleasing. Mirror finish even with my hand feed. Tried several spindle speed from 1000 to 1800 rpm, depth of cuts from 0.05 to 0.2mm and slow to fast hand feed rates and the finish was a mirror finish every time. I am totally impressed. This is with with the general purpose ODMT 0504ZZN-D57 Grade WKP35S supplied with the face mill. Hope to try some G88 WXN15 inserts when I can find some which may give an even better finish if thats possible.
Thanks Pixman

[PixMan]

The biggest difference you'll see should you get some ODHT0504ZZN-G88 in grade WK10 or WXN15 is reduced load, not a hugely better finish. Because those inserts are fully ground and dead sharp, they cut aluminium easier. This matters on a lot of machines which have greatly reduced spindle torque at the higher speeds. If you're successful and happy with the results you have with those very "universal" inserts, no need to be in any hurry to find the sharp inserts.

[ronboult]

Thanks for the info Pixman. It has prompted me to consider a larger F4080 given that ODHT0504ZZN-G88 in grade WK10 or WXN15 inserts produce reduced load on the mill.
My Mill is only 1.5Hp but using the 40mm F4080 there appeared minimal if any loading cutting Alu using the WKP35S, max spindle speed and reasonable depth of cut.

What is the largest face mill I can consider? There seems to be many more 50mm and 65mm models ( and larger) come up for sale and they have 22mm bore which I prefer. Is 65 mm too large for my machine?

If 65mm is OK I will keep the 40mm for steel and look for a larger model for Alu using ODHT0504ZZN-G88 in grade WK10 or WXN15. There is currently a WALTER F2280 B 052 Z04 03 22MM ARBOR available but I can't find out if it takes 0504 or 0605 inserts (Not listed in 2012 Catalogue) If it takes 0605 inserts this would be great as WK10 and WXN15 inserts are more readily available in the larger size.
Cheers
Ron

[ronboult]

After looking at my F4080 I now realise that it is actually rated 50mm diam. I was confused because it is physically much smaller than my other generic 50mm face mills and the original ad listed it as 42mm (Walter 42mm Dia. Face mill F4080.B16.050Z04.03). Maybe I should be looking for a 65 or 75mm F4080. what do people think?
Ron

[PixMan]

Ron,

The "rated" diameters you are getting are confusing to many due to the fact that it's a "lead angle face mill". Don't be embarrassed because it's complicated and I understand it only because I've been around it for far too long.

The catalog illustrations will show a "Dc" and a "Da" dimensions, and they relate to the nomenclature as well as the physical dimensions. The cutter you list as F4080.B16.050.Z04.03 is as follows:

F4080.B16.050.Z04.03 the "F4080" just describes the cutter model number and generation. The higher the first number, the newer the design.
F4080.B16.050.Z04.03 the "B16" is B meaning cylindrical bore of 16mm.
F4080.B16.050.Z04.03 the "050" represents the "Da" or overall diameter, out to the tips of the inserts.
F4080.B16.050.Z04.03 the "Z04" represents the number of "teeth" or in the case of an insert cutter, number insert pockets.
F4080.B16.050.Z04.03 the "03" represents maximum depth of cut per pass.

There is a variation in certain cutters where after the diameter they may put the letters "DC", and that shows the cutters true cutting diameter maximum flat width. Without the DC it's overall. So from the catalog illustrations your cutter does have a Dc of 42mm.

I have used up to 4" cutters on my old (no longer extant) 1HP Bridgeport milling machine. It was definitely too much for anything more than light finish passes of perhaps .010" (0,25mm) depth in most materials. You could safely use a 63mm F4080, which would have a 58mm Dc, or even an F4080.B22.063DC.Z06.03 which would have a major OD of 71mm but true cutting diameter of 63mm. Bigger than that would really be taxing your machine, and even that size isn't going to be "fully utilized."

Going to a cutter that uses the more common ODMT/ODHT 0605 has the benefit of finding more inserts on eBay, but you can't really use the increased depth of cut capacity. The bigger the insert, the more likely to see fewer inserts in the cutter too.