HSS and carbide tooling

[EdK]

(02-19-2012, 09:52 AM)ETC57 Wrote: OOOOOOOOPs!!!!! ya it was late.:s

2800 rpm

Jerry.

Just so you know, members have 24 hours after they submit a post during which they can edit their posts. So if you see an error in your post you can edit it as long as it's within the 24 hour window.

Ed

[ETC57]

Morning Ed,

Good to know, thanks.:)

Jerry.

[TOM REED]

Here is a question does anyone make HSS inserts that will fit tooling for carbide, I was just wondering, I have a great abundance of ground hss cutters and tool holders for these,m they are hard to get the geometry right with qctp so I plan on making a lantern style toolpost for my new lathe. I also have a great abundance of carbide inserts that I will have to make tool holders for. I was given a large number of surplus from a local industrial shop but have not the knowledge to identify them so is there a chart of some sort that will assist in doing this. Amateur questions. tom

[PixMan]

Yes, Tom, there's A.R. Warner Company of Ohio. They make a few ANSI/ISO compliant inserts that fit in standard holders normally used for carbide.

http://www.arwarnerco.com/warner_catalog_inserts.html

I really can't see the benefit, but to some it's there. Given how tough some grades of carbide can be today, the argument for HSS's resistance to chipping is in many ways a moot point. The A.R. Warner Co. inserts are made from a quality PM (powdered metal) T-15 tools steel which has higher hot-hardness levels than many lesser HSS tools. You'll find that they have primarily flat-topped inserts that have no chip control features.

Given the plethora of carbide inserts that can be found for the same or less money, I'd go with carbide for many applications. The ONLY place that their HSS inserts may outperform carbide is in an extremely light depth of cut at a light feed, because there chip control may be a non-issue and they can leave a nice finish.

I ask this: Why are you taking such light cuts that this is needed? My way is to make the last two cuts before arriving at finish size be as close the same as each other as possible. Make those last to cuts (given a carbide insert) to be at least the equivalent in depth to the tool nose radius of the insert, and you'll nail the size every time.

But I digress. The A.R. Warner inserts are relatively cheap as compared to premium new, current product coated carbide inserts. Compared to what I can find on Ebay of quality carbide product, perhaps not such a bargain.

The best generic, all-purpose chart I have found is that on CarbideDepot.com. Click on the link and then check out each of the charts they've put together. The range of inserts is broad, and I can help. I have used nearly every geometry made at one time or another. Here's a little bit of the range for you:

The "gold" insert is a 1/4" I.C. size Valenite DCGT21.51-PM2 grade 9625. It's used mostly on little profile boring bars, and some small tools for external turning.


The one is sits on is a 1" I.C. size Walter CNMM864-NRR grade WPP10. It's been a long time since I ran a machine robust enough to handle that thing!


You could fit a whole pack of ten of the small ones inside the big one, and some industries such as railroad, steel bar peeling and ship-building use even larger ones.

[Mayhem]

I am currently engaging with Hemly Tool in Connecticut to supply some tool holders. On my list are an internal and external holder for lay down threading inserts. I have received a quote on some Dorian holders and was sent a copy of their turning catalogue for reference.

http://www.doriantool.com/doriantool/index.php

I found the info very good, so I thought I would post a link here. There is other literature on this page but I haven't looked at it yet.

I have been collecting catalogues since PixMan enlightened me to the fact that carbide insert tooling does have a place in the home shop. Lots of good information on nomenclature and also handy to reference chip breaker and grades.

[aRM]

KEN
U mentioned this before, and so did DAVE as well, about NEGATIVE / POSITIVE Inserts. A little befuddling to rookies.

We did try to grasp the the reference to it on looking up Walter's Catalogue which showed a certain difference in ANGLES of each. We assume this to be the Insert RAKE as presented to the workpiece ???

However, is there a quicker way of making us understand, maybe in lay terms, what effect each has in a cutting action and why one would be better, or worse, than the other. We note U mention here, and in our discussions as well, that the size of a machine's Motor capacity does have to be taken into consideration, or has a lot to do with the final finish with that specific type of Insert.

Seeing that we are neither adept at shaping nor sharpening HSS cutters and have gone the direct route of less time consuming Insert usage, it would be good to get a proper clarification on this for future choice of Inserts and Toolholders. Guess others out there may benefit from Your discourse as well.

As always, we sincerely appreciate the magnanimous sharing of Your tremendous expertise.
LORD BLESS
aRM

[EdK]

Hi Ken.

What do you think of this deal?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TUNGALOY-CCGT21-...1c2508281b

Thanks,
Ed

[PixMan]

Looks like a great deal on a pretty good insert for aluminum and 300 series stainless steels. The ANSI designation would be CCGT21.50, so a .004" corner radius.

I notice the recommended feed rates are extremely low at .0004" to .001" per rev. Watch out for that, very easy to override the chipbreaker and get a rats nest in a hurry.

[EdK]

Thanks Ken. I went ahead and bought ten.

Ed

[EdK]

I was looking for inserts for a DCMT tool I've got coming from http://www.latheinserts.com and ran across this pack of 10 on sale at Amazon for $34.95. They only had one pack left so I snapped it up. Going back to the web site page later in the day, the price had changed to $135.  

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0040N...UTF8&psc=1

I sure lucked out on that one.

Ed