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+--- Thread: What face mill do u use??? (/thread-2568.html)
RE: What face mill do u use??? - aRM - 03-22-2015
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(03-20-2015, 04:28 PM)PixMan Wrote: aRM,
I checked the parameters for annealed (soft condition) D2 tool steel. The recommendation is 375 surface feet per minute (approx. 115 m/min) so for that material you want to run closer to 826 rpm for your 44mm effective cutting diameter. Since you don't have that speed and it's risky to run higher, use the 650 rpm at the highest setting of the low range shown in the photo you had posted of available speeds.
That would put you at about 89 m/min cutting speed, very conservative. Feed rate should be around 590 mm/min, so do as DaveH suggests and calibrate by marking two lines 600 mm apart and note the position of the feed potentiometer when it takes one minute to travel that distance (or, 30 seconds for 300 mm travel.)
From there, the maximum width of cut is 44 mm with that cutter, so use about 40 mm. Now simply adjust the depth of cut to within what your 2HP spindle can do. Start at perhaps a 1mm depth of cut and see how much the machine does or doesn't protest. I'd guess that you could probably do about 1,5mm, maybe more.
You will likely check the inserts for wear after a few passes. This is where, if you set it as recommended, you will find a huge difference from what you were getting before. I'd venture that the inserts will barely look used. Cut dry at first, only use coolant or cutting oil as a last resort. Ping me here right away if you are having any problems and I'll do my best to troubleshoot via long distance.
KEN
Things seemed to have fallen in place without very much ado.
So, (without perambulating too much on the outskirts of verbosity), we used to love that phrase in school, or getting into too much detail for our other readers, we will let these pics tell the story. Only thing is we hope we get the loading sequence right. So here goes.....
1. First cut at 1mm Depth, 650 RPM #2 setting on the potentiometer, conventional milling mode, no coolant as specified as well, note with beautiful Bronze coloured Chips.
2. Pic of Insert after first cut. Like new !!!
3. Second cut at same Speed
4. 0.20mm Finish Cut also at 650 RPM
5. Note the colour difference of the Chips from the High Speed Second Cut
6. Difference at the Higher Speed Finish Cut with the same Feed achieving a much nicer finish
7. Job complete to ultimate satisfaction
8. Condition of Insert at completion
9. Insert given wipe over for better view
We can only say THANK YOU.
U and Dave have been the real stars of this show.
LORD BLESS
aRM
RE: What face mill do u use??? - DaveH - 03-22-2015
aRM,
I'm glad it all came right for you
. Might be a good idea to write all the setting down for future reference.
DaveH
RE: What face mill do u use??? - PixMan - 03-22-2015
Thank you for sharing that with us. Now having seen that I can say that for your light finish cuts of 0.2mm or less, try jumping up to the 1120 rpm range, use climb milling paths and bump up your feed rate commensurately.
No reason to dawdle along. It'll take it!
The results you show are exactly what I would expect, and believe I may have predicted. The Walter grade WKP25S for milling tougher steels (and cast iron!) has always impressed me. You do have to be cautious because it can be brittle, but when you do it right the reward is the extraordinary productivity and dramatically lower cost per part. Yes, it is a VERY expensive cutter (far more than cheap Asian imports) and Walter is very proud of the inserts, but when you see those kind of process improvements and confidence is built, the cost quickly turns into "look how much that tooling pays me."
BTW, how does the sound of it working compare to the previous cutter? Machining tells us as much (if not more) about how good or bad the cutting conditions are than the visual does. If it sounds good, it probably is good. If it sounds like crap, it almost ALWAYS is.
RE: What face mill do u use??? - PixMan - 03-22-2015
I just noticed your clamping of the work, or lack of it. Look into some Mitee-Bite or Talon Grip type of low profile toe clamps for that "free end" of the plate. Vibration kills carbide, you want that end to be securely fastened to the table.
RE: What face mill do u use??? - aRM - 03-24-2015
(03-22-2015, 01:36 PM)DaveH Wrote: aRM,Yup, Dave, All this only due to the tremendous guidance from U and Ken
I'm glad it all came right for you
DaveH
We are indeed grateful U Guys take out the time to assist us tyros, time in which U could be doing something more lucrative
And yes, we do have hard copies of Your and Ken's specifications which for now, is stamped on the brain !!!
aRM
RE: What face mill do u use??? - aRM - 03-24-2015
(03-22-2015, 02:08 PM)PixMan Wrote: I just noticed your clamping of the work, or lack of it. Look into some Mitee-Bite or Talon Grip type of low profile toe clamps for that "free end" of the plate. Vibration kills carbide, you want that end to be securely fastened to the table.Thanks Ken
The pic does not show the 4 huge clamps further back
However, looking at those Mitee-Bite's, they are exactly what the good doctor ordered, as we were earlier also contemplating fabricating something smaller to hold the face/beginning of our work pieces.
Only hope we can get these for our Mill Table, which we think is pretty standard Bridgeport sized.
Once again "Muchas Gracias, Maestro"
aRM
RE: What face mill do u use??? - Mayhem - 03-24-2015
(03-24-2015, 12:12 AM)aRM Wrote: ...
We are indeed grateful U Guys take out the time to assist us tyros, time in which U could be doing something more lucrative..
aRM - this is exactly why this is the forum that I spend 99% of my time on. There is none of the crap that exists on some of the other forums and nobody here cares whether you have the latest CNC machining centre or a Chinese drill/mill.
I, like you, have benefited immensely from the knowledge, experience, generosity and willingness to help from the members on this site. I have gotten far more than I am able to give back, but I try where I can. For most (probably all, now that I think about it), the satisfaction of being able to help someone else is reward enough. I've also been fortunate enough to meet several members over the past few years and they are some of the most upstanding people I have met. I certainly hope to have the opportunity to meet more when the opportunities arise.
We may be a small community but what we lack in numbers, we make up for in community spirit and the willingness to share and help.
This has been an interesting and informative thread to read and I can see how helpful it has been to you and your sons. As Ken has said, the cutters and the inserts do not come cheap but the increased productivity and reduced man hours will pay for them many times over. My Dad always use to say that tools are only expensive if you lose them (or they get stolen).
RE: What face mill do u use??? - aRM - 03-24-2015
Mayhem Wrote: We may be a small community but what we lack in numbers, we make up for in community spirit and the willingness to share and help.
This has been an interesting and informative thread to read and I can see how helpful it has been to you and your sons. As Ken has said, the cutters and the inserts do not come cheap but the increased productivity and reduced man hours will pay for them many times over. My Dad always use to say that tools are only expensive if you lose them (or they get stolen).
"Tis a good feeling being part of this lil' community (obviously of philanthropists mostly), as we have only felt welcomed and totally at ease.
We learnt a long time ago that 'quality" does not come cheap either and the little extra doled out is really made up also in not having to buy again. "When U buy, U buy once", was a good adage, can't recall who said that. And Your Dad gave U some practical gems to live by.
Thanks again for taking time as well to contribute, in no small measure, to an enjoyable experience.
We reckon that every contributor here on this Forum is a crucial link in the chain that binds us all together to make Metal working fun
Really looking forward to tackling greater problems.
LORD BLESS
aRM
RE: What face mill do u use??? - aRM - 03-24-2015
PixMan Wrote: BTW, how does the sound of it working compare to the previous cutter? Machining tells us as much (if not more) about how good or bad the cutting conditions are than the visual does. If it sounds good, it probably is good. If it sounds like crap, it almost ALWAYS is.
KEN
In our excitement, we forgot to mention that commencing with the recommended Feed our machine did squeal and rattle some at the start of the cut. And this was not because of the high Feed rate but more so from our past Mr BOZO catastrophe when we left the wrench in the Draw bar whilst trying to concentrate on the cutting problem at that time. The machine was repaired by Millwrights, but does still sound loud in the high speeds.
We immediately reversed and restarted at half the Feed rate, and munch crunch munch, she kept going beautifully quietly, with an assurance and confidence we never heard from our machine before.
That Sir, was like U Guys would say, Beethoven in C minor !!!
I can't repeat that sound of a quiet speedy fluent woosh woosh whilst the cutter just ate up that D2 like it was soft wood or something. Yes, it was amazing watching that cutter do its business like it was born to do that - and it did !!!
And I did intentionally add pics of the "Bronze-coloured" chips which most U Guys would read as perfect for the Speed and Feed without the need for coolant.
Down here, we usually refer to the Mercs and BMW's as German Engineering and their Tooling says it all.
However, there's something on my mind wanting exposure from the time U recommended this WALTER Tool and I do want to get it off my chest, clear the air some, if U would promise not to be offended.
How come U are all for this "foreign" WALTER tooling whilst Your other Machinist compatriots would hear of nothing else but "Proudly made in USA" as the best in the world ???
U gave us an unbiased recommendation and boy, did it work. The proof is all here. Watching the main troupe of presenters on "You T" they are all, without exception, not just gloaters, but ravenously partisan about "Made in USA". Please, don't get me wrong. I am only trying to understand the psyche behind Your decision. Yes, with machine down-time and better productivity etc - this F4080 wins hands down. There's nothing that comes near it. But how come U found this and U use this and U recommended it to other machine shops.
Would be nice to know from the Man himself.
aRM
RE: What face mill do u use??? - PixMan - 03-24-2015
My fondness for the Walter tooling stems from having used Valenite (made in USA) tooling for years at work, and getting some at my home shop as it was born in the late 1990's.
As of January 1st of 2010, Valenite was merged into Walter, as both are/were owned by Sandvik AB of Sweden. Over the next couple years at work, much of the Valenite tooling had been obsoleted and replaced by Walter brand products, and I quickly found out why. The stuff is AWESOME! Mind you, at work there are tools from Walter, Sandvik Coromant, Iscar, and (mostly American made) Kennametal.
Not every American wraps themselves in the American flag, you know. While I choose to drive an American car (Ford), not everything I own is domestic production. My Denon receiver is made in China, along with the Toshiba TV, much of my computer and even my dining room set. Curiously, we have a number of "Patriots" in this country who insist upon riding only an American made Harley Davidson, which they throw in the back of their Toyota Tundra pickup truck. My bike is a British built Triumph, and it's never seen a truck bed.
Neither Walter nor any other tooling company has a lock on all the best tooling. They all have their "shining stars" and their dogs. In carbide insert milling and turning of steels, you will not find much (if anything) which can beat the Walter "Tiger Tec Silver" grades. In some stainless steels and many superalloys, competitors can beat them. Their Titex drills also kick butt. They have very little for the CNC Swiss lathes, where competitors do.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Ken