What face mill do u use??? - Printable Version

What face mill do u use??? - Printable Version

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RE: What face mill do u use??? - aRM - 03-19-2015

(03-18-2015, 03:16 PM)DaveH Wrote: That looks a very nice milling machine aRM

DaveH

Thanks DAVE
Tried to look after it all these 8 plus Years
Did pull a couple of Mr BOZO's on it though, but luckily the damage was repairable
aRM

RE: What face mill do u use??? - aRM - 03-19-2015

(03-18-2015, 03:49 PM)DaveH Wrote: Hi aRM,
Have a read of this, you can also print it and read it in bed
http://www.metalworkingfun.com/showthread.php?tid=776

It gives the basic concepts of vertical milling mainly for bench and smaller machines, smaller than the one you have and only for HSS and carbide end mills and slot mills. However the basic principles still apply to your machine. Just remember it does not cover insert milling cutters, nor does it apply to the use thereof.

DaveH

Thanks a mill Dave, for this link.
Having taken a cursory read of the article we reckon there's stacks of gems there that's more than practical.

Already have our hard copy, and like we told KEN, heck Man, we going to make sure we thoroughly understand this "SPEED FEED Freak" that's been eluding us all this while.

We like Your style, especially important at the beginning, ...."if U can do it" .......
That's more encouragement in a lifetime that we have heard.

Much appreciated, Man
LORD BLESS
aRM

RE: What face mill do u use??? - aRM - 03-19-2015

(03-18-2015, 05:41 PM)PixMan Wrote: That's a pretty good machine there aRM, no reason to think you won't love that cutter when you get it and use it.

You can't climb mill with it, but as long as you have at least 2/3rds of the cutter diameter engaged you should be OK with that. For less than that, be sure your cutter is to the right side of cutting path and workpiece to its left (conventional milling.)

Any idea when the new cutter and inserts will show up?

Ken

Thanks KEN

Will remember that important climb Milling bit.

They did tell me that the tooling will arrive tomorrow, Friday 03.20, 2015 hopefully, and that they will courier it to us the same day. I only hope I can make arrangements to collect the package on Saturday morning to be able to do some work over the weekend. It's a long shot, but I will only know when I phone them in the morning. We also hope that it's overnight service.

These Guys are authorised distributors recommended on the Walter web site, so we think they would be well experienced with these kind of ETA's and Delivery schedules. The only down side is that they are some 900 Kilometres away, only to tax our patience the more !!!

aRM

RE: What face mill do u use??? - DaveH - 03-19-2015

aRM,

Speeds and Feeds are important they are even more important when using insert cutters.
Luckily the manufacturers have helped here often they have data available regarding speed, feed, depth of cut and the material being cut for particular inserts.

However if I where you I would just ask Ken Thumbsup

this guy lives and breathes inserts heck he evens dreams about them in his sleep Smile

You will have to give him some criteria.
Such as: Your machine, whether you want speed and feed so as not to stress the machine (and you Smile

). If you require the inserts to last as long as possible - this will mean TIME (cutting time) is not your main or prime concern.

Ken will come up with some parameters for you, Speed, Feed, Depth of cut. It will be a whole lot better than a 'thumb suck'.

DaveH

RE: What face mill do u use??? - PixMan - 03-19-2015

Just let me know what specific material you will be cutting to start with and I'll give you an RPM to start your cutting.

RE: What face mill do u use??? - aRM - 03-20-2015

(03-19-2015, 03:24 PM)DaveH Wrote: aRM,

Speeds and Feeds are important they are even more important when using insert cutters.
Luckily the manufacturers have helped here often they have data available regarding speed, feed, depth of cut and the material being cut for particular inserts.

However if I where you I would just ask Ken this guy lives and breathes inserts heck he evens dreams about them in his sleep
You will have to give him some criteria.
Such as: Your machine, whether you want speed and feed so as not to stress the machine (and you ). If you require the inserts to last as long as possible - this will mean TIME (cutting time) is not your main or prime concern.

Ken will come up with some parameters for you, Speed, Feed, Depth of cut. It will be a whole lot better than a 'thumb suck'.

DaveH

Hello DAVE
Thanks for this
Will definitely ask KEN
Read your recommended article. Thoroughly enjoyed it and I must say, it was a real eye opener.

Setting SPEED is a straight forward choice where one would follow a given set of numbers and work therefrom.
However, FEED on the other hand is really an elusive mirage.

Hear me out.
What both U and Ken have correctly and scientifically elaborated on is for us rookies, really an academic presentation. To implement that specific feed rate is well nigh impossible, unless one's machine has, a SPEED METER or maybe a DRO ??? Never heard of that !!!
Don't know if a DRO gives movement/momentum Rates or the like ???
How would one really know practically, even using an Auto Feed, that the Table is Travelling at a specific speed into the cut ???
There is no way to measure that on our Home Shop Machines.
Yes, we concede, even so called High Speed High Feed Cutters have their limitations, as we have just experienced. But to be able to precisely measure our FEED, that is subjective and argumentative. Yes, we can control that Feed Rate within certain given parameters, but no way Sir, can we measure that. Like U mentioned, either the Cutter or the machine will tell one that all is hunky dory or otherwise.

Please, do take this in the vein it is intended. We do not want to disprove what U Folks are saying. On the other hand, we totally agree as we have lesser knowledge and experience by eons. We reiterate, we want to thoroughly understand our machine and utilise the Tool invested in to its full potential.
aRM

RE: What face mill do u use??? - aRM - 03-20-2015

(03-19-2015, 07:02 PM)PixMan Wrote: Just let me know what specific material you will be cutting to start with and I'll give you an RPM to start your cutting.

KEN
Ok. The Facemill and the Inserts will be here tomorrow, LORD WILLING. (It's taking so bloody long !!!)

Need to finish abouts 4 inches on the edge of that piece of 27" D2.
What will be Your suggested RPM ???

I know we agreed on a Low RPM for better torque. Hear me out on whether my settings on the Spindle Speed plaque on my machine are correct.
Just assuming that U will say 420 RPM, I will set my Speed Range Levers on the LOW side whilst engaging my On/Off Switch on the High Forward setting to achieve that speed.
Am I on the right track here ??? Do let me know. Regret bothering U with this nitty gritty trivialities.

Thanks once again
aRM

RE: What face mill do u use??? - DaveH - 03-20-2015

aRM,
Measuring the feed rate is very easy. Mark the mill table using a crayon two lines say 500 or 750 mm apart. Run the X axis feed you don't have to run the spindle and use a stop watch to measure the time between the two lines. Now you didn't think it was that easy did you Smile

Use the measured feed to calibrate your (speed) control knob. The knob you turn to increase decrease the feed has some numbers next to it.

Easy Smile

DaveH

RE: What face mill do u use??? - PixMan - 03-20-2015

aRM,

I checked the parameters for annealed (soft condition) D2 tool steel. The recommendation is 375 surface feet per minute (approx. 115 m/min) so for that material you want to run closer to 826 rpm for your 44mm effective cutting diameter. Since you don't have that speed and it's risky to run higher, use the 650 rpm at the highest setting of the low range shown in the photo you had posted of available speeds.

That would put you at about 89 m/min cutting speed, very conservative. Feed rate should be around 590 mm/min, so do as DaveH suggests and calibrate by marking two lines 600 mm apart and note the position of the feed potentiometer when it takes one minute to travel that distance (or, 30 seconds for 300 mm travel.)

From there, the maximum width of cut is 44 mm with that cutter, so use about 40 mm. Now simply adjust the depth of cut to within what your 2HP spindle can do. Start at perhaps a 1mm depth of cut and see how much the machine does or doesn't protest. I'd guess that you could probably do about 1,5mm, maybe more.

You will likely check the inserts for wear after a few passes. This is where, if you set it as recommended, you will find a huge difference from what you were getting before. I'd venture that the inserts will barely look used. Cut dry at first, only use coolant or cutting oil as a last resort. Ping me here right away if you are having any problems and I'll do my best to troubleshoot via long distance.

RE: What face mill do u use??? - aRM - 03-22-2015

(03-20-2015, 02:56 PM)DaveH Wrote: aRM,
Measuring the feed rate is very easy. Mark the mill table using a crayon two lines say 500 or 750 mm apart. Run the X axis feed you don't have to run the spindle and use a stop watch to measure the time between the two lines. Now you didn't think it was that easy did you

Use the measured feed to calibrate your (speed) control knob. The knob you turn to increase decrease the feed has some numbers next to it.

Easy

DaveH

Now really DAVE, was it that easy !!!
Heck Man, we did exactly as U suggested. Only thing is, the potentiometer setting was at almost 5 notches to cover the the 300mm distance that KEN had specified for the feed, by which we had never run our machine previously.
That's another story for KEN. So read on below.
aRM