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(03-09-2015, 01:56 PM)DaveH Wrote: aRM
Thanks,
My only problem with Walter is they don't have an office here in South Africa. After sales could be troublesome maybe Iscar, Sandvik Coromant, Kennametal might be a better option if they have something similar the the Walter F4041.
I'm not trying to do Walter out of a sale - you have to look at it from your point of view.
DaveH
Heck Man, U from Jozey, !!!
'Tis really a small world.
We will just have to patiently shop around and see what we find. Like Ken says, it's the Tool together with the right INSERTS which is going to make all the difference. We have the 6 sided (I think) MITSUBISHI OCTOCUT which unfortunately we have not pushed to the limit and this is, we are sure a Shoulder Cutting Tool, if we recall from our brochure. We could be mistaken.
It is indeed really surprising what "providence" has in store for U. Simple example, some Years back, I was looking for a lathe "with 5C Collets" and picked up a beautiful UK Made, Hardinge KL-1, a true HLVH Copy, from the good Guys in Hartebeespoort, TH Machine Tools. What a dream machine !!! Eventually had to sell it. That's another story.
We are digressing Dave, but honestly, thought U were from the States, placard and all !!! Feels like home now.
aRM
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Not much out there but I found this one in Poland, advertised on the US eBay site.
http://[url=http://www.ebay.com/itm/100p...1#shpCntId[/url]
LOL...a huge supply of the right grade of inserts, should go a few years. Not the preferred chipbreaker geometry (A57 vs. my recommmedation D57), but would work.
I just wish it were a 63mm or 50mm one.
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The following 2 users Like PixMan's post:
DaveH (03-10-2015), Mayhem (03-10-2015)
(03-09-2015, 02:53 PM)aRM Wrote: Heck Man, U from Jozey, !!!
'Tis really a small world.
We will just have to patiently shop around and see what we find. Like Ken says, it's the Tool together with the right INSERTS which is going to make all the difference. We have the 6 sided (I think) MITSUBISHI OCTOCUT which unfortunately we have not pushed to the limit and this is, we are sure a Shoulder Cutting Tool, if we recall from our brochure. We could be mistaken.
It is indeed really surprising what "providence" has in store for U. Simple example, some Years back, I was looking for a lathe "with 5C Collets" and picked up a beautiful UK Made, Hardinge KL-1, a true HLVH Copy, from the good Guys in Hartebeespoort, TH Machine Tools. What a dream machine !!! Eventually had to sell it. That's another story.
We are digressing Dave, but honestly, thought U were from the States, placard and all !!! Feels like home now.
aRM
aRM,
I was just thinking that since you may not be able to get a Walter cutter over there why don't you just get me the complete nomenclature off the Mitsubishi cutter and inserts you have. I have a lot of their catalogs on my computer and could try to find you a grade and geometry of insert that would work better in that D2 tool steel than what you may be using.
I can say that I've yet to see any grade form any other maker beat that Walter WKP25S in the tool steels, but the right one from Mitsubishi, run the right way, just might work a lot better than what you've tried.
Let me know.
Ken
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(03-09-2015, 06:07 PM)PixMan Wrote: Not much out there but I found this one in Poland, advertised on the US eBay site.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/100pc-Walter-ODMW-060508-A57-WKP25S-inserts-F2280-B-22-080-Z06-04-milling-cutter-/221695553537?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item339e15b001#shpCntId">http://www.ebay.com/itm/100pc-Walter-ODM...1#shpCntId
LOL...a huge supply of the right grade of inserts, should go a few years. Not the preferred chipbreaker geometry (A57 vs. my recommmedation D57), but would work.
I just wish it were a 63mm or 50mm one.
KEN
Check this out !!!
file:///C:/Users/arm/Downloads/20pcs%20Walter%20LNGX%20130708R%20L55%20WKP35%20WSP45%20Milling%20Inserts%20Milling%20Cutter%2050%20Mm%20_%20eBay.htm
He has the LNGX Inserts as well !!!
What do U think ???
aRM
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Quote:aRM,
I was just thinking that since you may not be able to get a Walter cutter over there why don't you just get me the complete nomenclature off the Mitsubishi cutter and inserts you have. I have a lot of their catalogs on my computer and could try to find you a grade and geometry of insert that would work better in that D2 tool steel than what you may be using.
I can say that I've yet to see any grade form any other maker beat that Walter WKP25S in the tool steels, but the right one from Mitsubishi, run the right way, just might work a lot better than what you've tried.
Let me know.
Ken
Ken
We looked at the new F4033's which we loved on first sight. Man are these things of beauty, with a Price tag to match !!! And that's gonna bust the bank for sure. The earlier link we sent above seems quite reasonable, except we don't know if he will ship our way. Do have a peek and give us Your thoughts there as well, please.
We also double-checked our Motor. It is definitely 2 HP. Guess adequate for the Cutters U were referring to.
U definitely read our mind, after we looked at some of the new Walter deals. They are definitely not cheap - but then what quality is !!!
We also reckon that our current Mitsubishi Octacut ought to be better utilised, if not pushed a bit to see its true capability, seeing that it also uses an 8 sided Insert.
The correct markings are OCTACUT 0503AR with small numberings below as ...... 16 HG8541. It is mounted on an R8-22 Spindle Arbour, exactly like U said. Man, do U know Your stuff !!! The Inserts we have are OEMX1705EER1-JS F7030. Numbers below the Barcode are
QUV293Z4AP1EX and below the name AOP43 - guess this is the Grade. Double and triple checked these, as we don't want to give U the wrong info.
It goes without saying that we really appreciate U taking all this trouble to try and resolve our problem as it is only Guys like U who bring vibrancy to a Forum like this where everyone benefits.
LORD BLESS and may Your shadow always stay long !!!
aRM
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aRM - Ken lives and breathes this stuff, and as you say - we are all extremely lucky that he is so willing to help others.
Hunting American dentists since 2015.
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I looked and that Octomill seems to be just another one of myriad products Mitsubishi pushes out, then no further development of grades and chipbreakers. Iscar is famous for this too, putting out new product to let unsuspecting customers do their testing and then discontinuing development if it isn't working. It is also a 45º lead angle face mill, not unlike a Walter F4080 or older F2280.
In the insert nomenclature you posted, the complete OEMX1705EER1-JS F7030 is the designation for the insert and all you need.
O = octagonal shape
E = 20º side clearance angle
M = tolerance, sintered to size, not ground
X = Proprietary hole or top form geometry
17 = inscribed circle size of the insert. man, those are HUGE for a small cutter!
05 = thickness
EE and R1 relate to the edge hone and any wiper flat on the cutting edges.
JS = the top form geometry a.k.a. chipbreaker shape of the insert. JS is common "general purpose" for Mitsubishi.
The other numbers you had are internal, though the AOP43 is very likely a batch code for date and location of manufacture.
In the cutter designation 05 means a 50mm diameter, 03 probably means 3 insert pockets and AR likely just means right hand cut. I can't picture them getting any more than three pockets in a 50mm/2" cutter body with such a large insert. The other numbers are also just internal product codes.
The only inserts for that cutter I see listed on Mitsubishi's website covering SA is what you already have, and one cermet grade that may stand a better chance of working.
OEMX1705ETR1 (flat top, no chipbreaker) in grade NX4545. The have one other coated carbide grade in addition to the F7030 you have, but the VP15TF is really for stainless steels and superalloys.
With the same 2HP I have and that material, you really don't want the F4041 shoulder mill for this application. You want to reduce the force required so lead angle face mill is what you want. Looking at Mitsubishi's offering, they are REALLY weak in carbide grades for steels. That's the strong suit for Walter, for sure.
Keep your eyes open for an F2280 or F4080. There are two inserts sizes, and bodies and inserts must match. The cutter designation end in "....03" for the smaller ODMT0504ZZN-D57 or ends in "....04" for the larger ODMT0605ZZN-D57. If you see any other brands that you can get a steady supply of inserts, let me know and we'll look for something in that brand, though it will be tough or impossible to match that WKP25S grade for tool steels.
Good luck!
Incidentally, you said you got some products shipped to you by Carbide Depot here in the US. They are a fully authorized Walter distributor and can get any of the products to you.
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KEN
Regret being a pain, just a couple of final (Duh !!) Questions, please.
Carbide Depot has the F4080.B22.052.Z03.04 - will a normal R8-22 SHELL MILL ARBOR fit this ??? Just trying to source some stuff locally as well and keep the package light !!! Could not garner too much info on the F4080, but we assume this is a 2" Facemill.
They also have the ODMT 0605 ZZN D-57 in Grade WKP 25 S Inserts for this Face Mill at a small Discounted Price. Our Luck !!! Seeing that Son also uses stacks of Stainless for Knives and (may) require some machining, will these Inserts be OK for S/S ??? We can't, at this point in time, outlay too much for various Grades in Inserts and need to consolidate, if U may.
Do kindly confirm the above
Thanks a stack once again.
LORD BLESS
aRM
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Everything you just listed fits together and would be the PERFECT for the task!
If they'll ship to you and you can afford the investment, you'll have zero regrets.
That grade isn't ideal for austenitic (300 series, non-magnetic) stainless steel but at lower speeds it would work. Being in the knife business I would guess that you're using the ferritic/martensitic stainless steels known over here as 410, 410, 430 & 440C or 440F. The grade is perfect for those too.
Best of luck,
Ken
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BTW, it occurred to me that if you got the F4080.B22.052.Z03.04 cutter you could skip the adapter and just take the existing Mitsubishi cutter off of it and bolt on the new one.
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